[Cyprinodontiformes] Projecto Internacional de Goodeiídeos (11)

[www.viviparos.com]

Prezados colegas,

No seguimento das dez anteriores mensagens sobre este assunto, aqui fica o
registo da continuação do diálogo até aqui desenvolvido.
Hoje reproduzem-se duas reacções à mensagem dada a conhecer em Projecto
Internacional de Goodeiídeos (9).
Nunca é demais alertar-vos para o facto de que, dentro das disponibilidades
de tempo livre, será sempre possível fazer-se alguma tradução se necessário.


-----Mensagem original-----
De: Martin Ravn Tversted 
Enviada: sexta-feira, 2 de Janeiro de 2009 13:06
Para: Michael Koeck; Ivan Dibble; Martin Ravn Tversted; Joel Healy; Miguel
Andrade; Colin Grist; Omar Dominguez; Brian Zimmerman; Miguel Zapater; Matt
Naumann; Alain Grioche; Gasper Gomboc; Guenther Schleussner; Gunter
Teichmann; Guenter-Ellenberg; Horváth Balázs; Kleine Horst; Harro
Hieronimus; Anton Weissenbacher; Dietmar Kunath; Erwin Radax; Patrick C.
Schmitz; Roman Slaboch; Kees de Jong; Stefan Hertwig; Jen Nightingale, Jonny
Rudd
Assunto: AW: Michael Koeck's idea - more developments

I haven't really been partipating in this discussion so far. I'm not sure my
view is important but here it goes. It was my impression that the initial
ideas from Michael was to organize both the professional and the private
goodeid community. Private organisation alone has failed so far.
However, I do think that if the various Zoos and Aquariums could cooperate
with us breeders in an organized way, they will find us useful. Let's face
the fact that the total amount of zoos and aquariums cannot save all
threatened species on earth. It's both a matter of money, space and what the
public is interested in when they come visit.
Among the few really dedicated goodeid breeders you will find an impressive
amount of knowledge on how to breed these fish. You will also find space,
dedication and time.- Many of the species we breed are also very well
documented when it comes to provenance and where the fish have been since
its collection.

The problem is at least two things.

1. the fish has often been kept with other species. I'm not thinking of
crossbreeding here but more about infections that other genera or fish
families could carry.

2. the breeder will loose interest or at least be forced to made another
priority when the almost obligatory divorce or similar event in life comes
by.

Many breeders have kept their fish for 10 - 20 and even 30 years plus so it
is obvious that really dedicated people can be found. But there need to be
made back up plans when other event set in that are out of the individuals
control. And here I think that the close cooperation with zoos and the
national livebearer organization is important.

Did you know that A goslinei have been breed in good numbers in Denmark the
past two years? Did you know that G multiradiatus was breed in good numbers
in Denmark last year indicating that Hubbsina could just as easily be breed
by the same breeder but this fish cannot be found in the hobby?

Martin Tversted


-----Mensagem original-----
De: Harro Hieronimus/DGLZ 
Enviada: sexta-feira, 2 de Janeiro de 2009 13:43
Para: Michael Koeck; Ivan Dibble; Martin Ravn Tversted; Joel Healy; Miguel
Andrade; Colin Grist; Omar Dominguez; Brian Zimmerman; Miguel Zapater; Matt
Naumann; Alain Grioche; Gasper Gomboc; Guenther Schleussner; Gunter
Teichmann; Guenter-Ellenberg; Horváth Balázs; Kleine Horst; Harro
Hieronimus; Anton Weissenbacher; Dietmar Kunath; Erwin Radax; Patrick C.
Schmitz; Roman Slaboch; Kees de Jong; Stefan Hertwig; Jen Nightingale, Jonny
Rudd
Assunto: AW: Michael Koeck's idea - more developments

Dear Martin,

There we have another problem: We are not even sure about the identity of
some species. You are speaking of Hubbsina. As to the most recent taxonomy
Hubbsina has never been kept in the hobby and may be extinct by now, what
has been kept (and maybe still is kept) under this name originates from the
Laguna Zacapu area and was described as a new species, Girardinichthys
ireneae.
To my personal opinion I don't think it is 100 % clear that this isn't a
synonym of Hubbsina turneri; 

1. the data on H. turneri are poor;
2. one of the describers, asked years ago why he had placed H. turneri as
Girardinichthys turneri in a small brochure published in the mid 80's told
me: Well, you have to see that, it's obvious. Not for me, by the way. Goodea
is most unclear regarding species and subspecies rank, as are some other
species. 

Additionally, Colin is showing the only possible way. Zoos and public
aquaria must play the leading role. Why? 
Because they can do so!
The show it since decades with their international breeding projects.
What Colin describes is exactly what they do. Participants in these breeding
programs give up ownership.
Example: If a zoo has a young male gorilla bred and raised, the keeper of
the breeding project book tells them where the gorilla has be sent to. This
is to supply a genetic base as broad as possible. Every zoo participating
has to announce any changes in stock. This works with zoos and aquaria,
because people get paid for doing it and because if they fall out, another
person will continue on doing that job. We (hobbyists) tried to create such
programs for Z. tequila and Characodon - where are we now?
The leading position must be taken by professionals and they should ask
interested hobbyists to support them with very strict rules regarding
keeping, distributing and whatever else is in concern with the fish. 

Regards Harro

P.S.: If anybody on the list does not know me, I'm the president of the
German Livebearer Society and author on the only goodeid monograph published
by now.