[Cyprinodontiformes] Projecto Internacional de Goodeiídeos (15)

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Quarta-Feira, 1 de Julho de 2009 - 21:39:39 WEST


Prezados colegas,

Nesta série seguem-se as reacções à minha mensagem intitulada « Goodeidae -
finishing the " what " issue », a qual é de novo aqui reproduzida na
abertura.
Mais uma vez recordo-vos como seria muito exaustivo transcrever todo o
diálogo, pelo que serão apenas consideradas para este propósito as partes
mais relacionadas com o historial da criação do grupo.
Nunca é demais alertar-vos para o facto de que, dentro das disponibilidades
de tempo livre, será sempre possível fazer-se alguma tradução se necessário.


-----Mensagem original-----
De: Miguel Andrade
Enviada: domingo, 11 de Janeiro de 2009 20:06
Para: Michael Koeck; Ivan Dibble; Martin Ravn Tversted; Joel Healy; Miguel
Andrade; Colin Grist; Omar Dominguez; Brian Zimmerman; Miguel Zapater; Matt
Naumann; Alain Grioche; Gasper Gomboc; Guenther Schleussner; Gunter
Teichmann; Guenter-Ellenberg; Horváth Balázs; Kleine Horst; Harro
Hieronimus; Anton Weissenbacher; Dietmar Kunath; Erwin Radax; Patrick
Schmitz; Roman Slaboch; Kees de Jong; Stefan Hertwig; Jen Nightingale, Jonny
Rudd, Alessio Arbuiatti
Assunto: Goodeidae - finishing the " what " issue.

Dear all,

Regardless the fact that I did not address any further comments on the
contributions of Joel Healy and Martin Tversted messages, it doesn't mean
that those contributions were not appreciated by me or that they are not
important.
Any way, we can do now an initial overview or standing point.

Last January the 1st, some questions were proposed for your opinion :

a) What is your judgement concerning a voluntary international solid
network, mostly to share information about Goodeid fish species kept out of
the original habitat ( ex situ ) ?

b) Could such network have a stock coordination to evaluate captivity
collection circumstances, species by species, at any moment, and release
recommendations ?

c) In your personal opinion, is there any dilemma or difficulty to accept
stock recommendations from an international credible “ management “ group,
even concerning your own fish collection ?

d) Do you see any inconvenience in relation to cooperation between private
people ( hobbyists ), zoos, public aquariums, institutes and societies ? (
as a general rule )
 
Some of us, during the past week had the chance to articulate, in a straight
approach or not so much, what we believe about these questions.
As I write before, in one of my comments sent today, it was nice to wait
another week for further contributions.
Question d) was undoubtedly, the most popular theme in focus on the overall
messages exchange this week, also I expected more opinions about c).
So far it seams that we all agree that, in alternative to a certain
opposition from some academics, cooperation between private people (
hobbyists ), zoos, public aquariums, institutes and societies will benefit
the future of Goodeids, whatever the actions of that teamwork would be.
An excellent contribution was Omar Dominguez's sentence " while working
together we can do more for the conservation than any isolated efforts ".  
Some of you weren't able to participate with messages because of some
conjectural language barrier or any other else. Others simply because they
are extremely busy people, and that 's perfectly understandable.
Also the realistically silence of some of you doesn't mean manifest lost
interest but,  sometimes, it means that the previously expressed opinions
are according to one personal way of view it self.
Finally, the interest expressed by to societies was the greatest triumph of
the past week. 
Taking this developments in consideration, I propose to close this
discussion next week with a clear inventory of what the project can turn out
to be and, start without delay, to talk about a few practical issues next,
the so called " how " phase.
Until than, please fell free to express your opinion. 
Have a nice week everybody.


Best regards

Miguel




-----Mensagem original-----
De: Colin Grist 
Enviada: segunda-feira, 12 de Janeiro de 2009 09:51
Para: Michael Koeck; Ivan Dibble; Martin Ravn Tversted; Joel Healy; Miguel
Andrade; Colin Grist; Omar Dominguez; Brian Zimmerman; Miguel Zapater; Matt
Naumann; Alain Grioche; Gasper Gomboc; Guenther Schleussner; Gunter
Teichmann; Guenter-Ellenberg; Horváth Balázs; Kleine Horst; Harro
Hieronimus; Anton Weissenbacher; Dietmar Kunath; Erwin Radax; Patrick
Schmitz; Roman Slaboch; Kees de Jong; Stefan Hertwig; Jen Nightingale, Jonny
Rudd, Alessio Arbuiatti
Assunto: RE: Goodeidae - finishing the " what " issue.

Dear All,
Many thanks to Miguel for doing a great job in coordinating things so far.

Were the recent messages from Joel Healy, Martin Tversted, Kees de Jong,
Michael Koeck and Thue sent to the group? If so, for some reason I did not
receive them.

Just a couple of comments. I had a conversation with Brian Zimmerman a
couple of days ago and we both agree that it will be useful to spread the
discussion amongst groups. For example if we have a representative from a
group, such as Thue from Poecilia Scandinavia, then he could, and should,
distribute important information amongst his fellow members.

One thing I know Omar will agree with is the difficulties of exporting
living material, such as Goodeids, out of Mexico. Hobbyists do manage to do
it by whatever methods they use, but Omar being affiliated to a body such as
the University of Michoacan will not be permitted as it is basically
illegal. As I have mentioned before we are attempting to create a Memorandum
of Association between Chester Zoo and the Fish Ark/University of Michoacan,
which will hopefully open doors that will allow us to obtain permits and
help us to get genetically viable breeding stock from there. If this happens
it will be possible to distribute stock amongst others in the group.

Brian and I are intending to meet in London sometime within the next two
weeks so that we can discuss some strategies from a FAITAG perspective. We
will submit the output to you all as our contribution to the "how" stage for
you all to comment on.

In the meantime best wishes to everyone,
Colin

Colin Grist
Aquarium Projects Coordinator
North of England Zoological Society
Chester Zoo, UK
www.chesterzoo.org
 
Moderator: NAW & Syngnathidae Listserves




-----Mensagem original-----
De: Poecilia Scandinavia
Enviada: segunda-feira, 12 de Janeiro de 2009 14:33
Para: Colin Grist
C/c: Michael Koeck; Ivan Dibble; Martin Ravn Tversted; Joel Healy; Miguel
Andrade; Colin Grist; Omar Dominguez; Brian Zimmerman; Miguel Zapater; Matt
Naumann; Alain Grioche; Gasper Gomboc; Guenther Schleussner; Gunter
Teichmann; Guenter-Ellenberg; Horváth Balázs; Kleine Horst; Harro
Hieronimus; Anton Weissenbacher; Dietmar Kunath; Erwin Radax; Patrick
Schmitz; Roman Slaboch; Kees de Jong; Stefan Hertwig; Jen Nightingale, Jonny
Rudd, Alessio Arbuiatti
Assunto: Re: Goodeidae - finishing the " what " issue.

Dear all

Of course I agree with that. It is not only a question of spreading  
discussions, but very much of spreading informations. We try to do  
that in different ways but very much through our magazine Poecilia  
Bladet. In almost every issue we have a column "News from Fish Ark" -  
it can be everything from new information about the work of  
maintaining to news from F.ex. Aqua Lab (and maybe even experiments  
made there). We also have articles about the habitats - I was in  
Mexico in April and May last year, and followed by our friends from  
Aqua Lab in Morelia we visited some of the habitats during the 3  
weeks, we were there (another fellow from Poeciliaa Scandinavia and my  
self), and we are making articles and photo`s from these habitats to  
the magazine (unfortunately in danish, but at least some of them can  
be translated, if anyone wishes that :-) ). Of course we will inform  
our members about an international group or something, if we manage to  
establish one and even earlier. Information is very important - of two  
major reasons. One is to tell about the problems and how big the  
problems really are - and the second is to tell about what we are  
doing and what it is possible to do to help maintaing and conservation  
of species and habitats. Of course there are big limitations -  we are  
not a  big organisation. But sometimes even small efforts can make a  
difference :-)

I also think it is important to meet each other (or at lest some of  
us) at occasions, where we have the possibilities to do that. It could  
be at meetings (like the one in Netherland some years ago, the BLA- 
conventions in England, the livebearer weekend of Poecilia  
Scandinavia, the symposiums in Mexico and so on - of course it will  
not be the same people participating  all the time, but nevertheless I  
think the discussions at these meetings (not at least the more  
informal ones) are important. As said I hope and look forward to see  
some of you in Denmark 1.-3. may - and I´ll give you a link to the  
event: http://www.poecilia.org/start/default.asp?page=225
---
The information about exporting living material from Colin is very  
interresting - and I hope it would be possible to distribute breeding  
stocks that way.

I look forward to hear more from the meeting between Brian and Colin  
as well as to the further discussions here :-)

My best wishes to all of you

Thue (Poecilia Scandinavia)



-----Mensagem original-----
De: Horst Kleine
Enviada: segunda-feira, 12 de Janeiro de 2009 15:02
Para: Michael Koeck; Ivan Dibble; Martin Ravn Tversted; Joel Healy; Miguel
Andrade; Colin Grist; Omar Dominguez; Brian Zimmerman; Miguel Zapater; Matt
Naumann; Alain Grioche; Gasper Gomboc; Guenther Schleussner; Gunter
Teichmann; Guenter-Ellenberg; Horváth Balázs; Kleine Horst; Harro
Hieronimus; Anton Weissenbacher; Dietmar Kunath; Erwin Radax; Patrick
Schmitz; Roman Slaboch; Kees de Jong; Stefan Hertwig; Jen Nightingale, Jonny
Rudd, Alessio Arbuiatti
Assunto: RE: Goodeidae - finishing the " what " issue.

Hello all together,

my name is Horst Kleine and I was contacted by Michael to this Goodeids
project, with big interest I have read a lot of E-mails since the sad letter
of Michael and hopes I confuse nobody with my answers and my bad english to
Miguel's questions.

a) I greet an international network  for Goodeids very much and will support
it, gladly I transmit my experiences and information to attitude and
breeding.

b) I hold an overview about the separate Goodeids species and local
Populations on this network for very meaningfully - I transmit surplus
animals from my own Stock(supply) to interested.

c) I also regard a coordination of all supplies and kinds(ways) for
necessary, against a recommendation and comment to my own inventory list I
have nothing.

d) as a private Breeder I have no reflections with zoos, scientists,
institutes, public aquariums or other private individuals together
preparatory works, however, would like to be respected as an equivalent
partner.

Best recards from Germany
Horst



-----Mensagem original-----
De: Colin Grist 
Enviada: segunda-feira, 12 de Janeiro de 2009 15:57
Para Michael Koeck; Ivan Dibble; Martin Ravn Tversted; Joel Healy; Miguel
Andrade; Colin Grist; Omar Dominguez; Brian Zimmerman; Miguel Zapater; Matt
Naumann; Alain Grioche; Gasper Gomboc; Guenther Schleussner; Gunter
Teichmann; Guenter-Ellenberg; Horváth Balázs; Kleine Horst; Harro
Hieronimus; Anton Weissenbacher; Dietmar Kunath; Erwin Radax; Patrick
Schmitz; Roman Slaboch; Kees de Jong; Stefan Hertwig; Jen Nightingale, Jonny
Rudd, Alessio Arbuiatti
Assunto: RE: Goodeidae - finishing the " what " issue.

Hello, it is me again for the second time today.

Thank you Horst for your contribution to the discussion. It is comments in
your e-mail that has prompted me to write to you all again.

Ivan will tell you that during the early relationship between hobbyists and
FAITAG it was not easy to agree on things. However, that was 12 - 15 years
ago and over time that relationship has very much improved and I hope with a
good level of mutual respect. The fact is that the zoo sector has a good
deal of expertise in managing breeding programmes, maintaining records and
developing useful protocols, which I hope will be beneficial to a group such
as this. However, zoo people, certainly within FAITAG, recognise that
hobbyists offer a very high level of expertise in husbandry etc., etc., and
are very much respected for this. What I am trying to say is that we will
work together, like Horst put it, as equivalent partners, or more accurately
as equal partners. I hope there was no doubt in this, but I felt I should
mention it anyway.

Ivan and myself have colleagues in the USA and other places who are also
specialists in Goodeids and other Cyprinodonts and, I am sure many of you
also have similar contacts. Does the group think we should invite more of
these people to the discussion and make it truly international and hopefully
make our cause stronger?

It would be great if some of you could attend the May meeting in Denmark as
suggested by my friend Thue.

Best regards,
Colin

 

Colin Grist
Aquarium Projects Coordinator
North of England Zoological Society
Chester Zoo, UK
www.chesterzoo.org
 
Moderator: NAW & Syngnathidae Listserves




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